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Interview with Peggy Ann Snoots

Citation

Please feel free to use the information from this transcript in any scholarly work. The full citation for this document is : Peggy Ann Snoots, interview by Nikki Smith, December 8, 1997, OH007, Oral History Collection, Frederick Community College, Frederick, MD.

Abstract

In an interview with Peggy Ann Snoots, she gives insight into Frederick County history during the period from 1939 until the present (1997). She tells of a haunted house which she grew up in and experiences her family had with a ghost. Even more, she bears witness to the race relations in Frederick County, the integration of schools, and the public reaction to the death of Martin Luther King Jr. She further comments on the actions of the Ku Klux Klan and N.A.A.C.P and how both groups developed and contributed to the progression of the Civil Rights Movement. Many changes have occurred in Frederick County over the years and Peggy Snoots gives first hand account of many those changes.

Transcript

NS = Nikki Smith (interviewer)
PS = Peggy Snoots (interviewee)

NS:	Today is December the eighth, 1997. I'm talking to Peggy Ann Snoots in her home and I just want to make sure that you know that you're being tape recorded.
PS:	Yes, I am.
NS:	Okay, and if we could just start off by a little biographical information: birth date, place, family history, all that.
PS:	All right. Well, I was born in Montgomery County in a haunted house. It was haunted because I, my brothers used to tell me, they used to go upstairs and go to bed, and they see, they would see their sheets and things waving and everything. And my one brother, one night, was hollering, and a screaming and a carrying on and my other brother went and looked, and they found him hanging out the window.
NS:	Your brother?
PS:	Hanging out the window by his fingertips and they didn't see nobody or nothing there to get him and we'd hear a baby cry. We'd go downstairs, down in the living room, there would be no, I would be the only baby in the house--in the dining room, living room, but it wasn't me and the rocking chairs would rock. They had a train depot, like next door to, or a little ways from there. Every night at a certain time, you look out the window, you would see a headless man walk down that railroad station, railroad track.
NS:	Oh, my God.
PS:	They say these stories were true. Like I said, I'm a very interesting, where I lived. I don't remember because I was only teeny tiny weeny baby, but they would tell me these stories, that they, my brothers and them would scream and holler and carry on, and my dad would go see, and there wouldn't be anybody there. It was a complete, haunted house and then I moved to Frederick County, down towards...oh what's the name of that place...Forrest Grove. I lived on a farm. Then we moved from there to another farm up the road, bit a ways. Then I started school when I was about six at Adamstown School, which I did not like school too well. I have a very large family, six brothers and three sisters. I lost my dad when he, when I was about seventeen and my mother became my friend, my confidant, my whatever else. I lost her just three years ago. I've had some trouble, good times, bad times. I guess that's been my life for the last seventeen years.
NS:	Okay.
PS:	You know.
NS:	Did you give your birthday?
PS:	I was born January 13, 1939, Friday the thirteenth. It was a snow and a blizzardy day. They had to sit on the hood of the car with two lanterns to get my mother to the hospital, they couldn't see where they were going.
NS:	Oh, wow. When you were a child, what was Frederick County like, or Frederick city, or wherever you grew up?
PS:	Frederick County was very opening, open. You could really do, and do just about anything you wanted to do, and you wouldn't have to be in fear of getting hurt. You could hitchhike up the road, you would not be in fear of somebody knocking you in the head with something. But, I think basically back in my childhood days, it was very quiet, very boring...I guess I could say...because I had to work on the farm, I couldn't get to go anywhere, but basically, it was very open, open, safe country, county.
NS:	What was it like with the segregation?
PS:	Let's see now, I have to...it was fair. I wouldn't say it was perfect, I think it was fair.
NS:	How were, how were blacks viewed?
PS:	Well, basically from, 'till I was, 'till I turned, let's see, from six 'till, I guess maybe when I was about seventh grade, it started to be segregated then. So, I didn't really have too much, really, to do with it until then...until I was in my seventh grade of school. That made me about fifteen, sixteen.
NS:	Were there places you were told not to go because they were specifically for...
PS:	No, not really.
NS:	No?
PS:	No, we basically could go to any place.
NS:	Did you have any relationships with black people, black children, anything, or were you just totally...
PS:	I didn't. I have a good relationship because my father had them working on the farm and the kids would come to the farm with their parents and we played together. My mother had a black lady who came and done her ironing and we used to have a ball together. I never had any problem with them.
NS:	As far as segregation goes, all the churches and parks were segregated and stores and restaurants and churches. Were there, did you ever...
PS:	I'm trying to think.
NS:	I mean, I know downtown Frederick was very segregated. They wouldn't sell to...
PS:	I think there might have been maybe, if my recollection, might have been maybe one or two places that certain people could go into and certain people couldn't go into. If I can remember correctly, there might've been one or two places that was off limits, you know to, but not, no, most, generally, mostly they could go anywhere, no, they were fairly decent back then. At least, at least in my opinion. That's my opinion now. I don't know about anybody else's opinion. But I can get along with anybody.
NS:	Right. Do you remember the feeling of the town when segregation ended? Like if they were for it or against it?
PS:	Let's see. I think it was basically fifty, fifty, half and half.
NS:	Some liked it, some didn't.
PS:	Some liked it, some didn't.
NS:	And what was your opinion on it?
PS:	It didn't matter to me, as long as they treated me good and didn't bother me, or didn't, it didn't really matter, you know? Like I said, I get a long with pretty near everybody. As long as they treat me the way I want them to be treated, that was fine.
NS:	Do you remember on the news, on the tv, all the stuff going down in the South, with Birmingham and all the violence down there?
PS:	Yeah, I was married then. I was living on Fish Street. That was when Martin Luther King got killed. We had riots, we had riots in Frederick. My ex-husband, Billy L. Snoots, was a police officer, who if it hadn't been for his dog, I guess he wouldn't be here today because they had surrounded him in his police cruiser and they was going to...but somehow or another he got to the door and he let his dog out and he was saved. But they did have riots and everything in Frederick when Martin Luther King was killed. I do remember that because I sat up all night and worried myself to death, but I was married to him then. But yeah, they, it was a pretty rough time in Frederick at that time. I don't remember the date or anything, but they had a pretty rough time at that time. They had riots, and they not exactly riots, but the blacks tried to show themselves.
NS:	Right.
PS:	They were trying to defend one of their black leaders that got killed. You know, it wasn't too much, I don't think anybody wasn't hurt or killed or anything, but just basically a few break-ins, that some of them went off half loony or whatever you want to call it. But otherwise, I think it was basically a, a quiet demonstration. They were just showing their common feeling toward their black leader getting killed.
NS:	How did you feel about when Martin Luther King was killed?
PS:	I think it was very unfair, but I might not like some of the things that he was saying, but I didn't dislike some of the things. I was for and against. I don't think he should have died the way he should've died. He has the right to live just like anybody else has the right to live. And he had a right to voice his opinion, if you didn't like him, okay, it's up to the individual if they liked him or not. It didn't matter to me. I didn't really pay much attention about things, you know? But, no, I don't think he should've gotten killed the way he did. The same about the Kennedy, I don't think they should've died the way they did. No.
NS:	Did you support or agree with the civil rights movement? Like, did you, did you think that segregation should end and that black people should have, you know, their rights?
PS:	I think they should've been treated just the same way as a white person should've been treated. If, if a white person's done something, he should've been punished. If a black person done the same kind of crime, he should've been treated and punished the same way, there should not [have] been no favoritism or no difference there. They should not have been treated different because they were black. No, they should've gotten the same treatment and same punishment as the white person should. It shouldn't have been no different there. I feel it was up to the good Lord, he made them that way. If he didn't want them, then, no, but, I feel they should get treated the same way. Because I've seen to this day, where a black and a white commits a crime. The white'll get treated a little bit different than the black, and the black get treated different. It should not be that way, that's my opinion. It should not be that way. They should be treated the same fairly. No, I might not be right but...
NS:	I think you're right in that, but...
PS:	Yes.
NS:	Something that surprised me, because I've only lived in Frederick County for about five years, is the Ku Klux Klan. Like everybody knows that, I didn't know at all, and I think I was sheltered, but do you remember any instances there they would...
PS:	No, I don't remember anything with that. I never really paid much attention to that. I think they, I've seen them on talk shows, and I don't, some of them should just, well, I shouldn't say anything, should just blow them away. Because some of these talk shows, they go outrageous, but I never really got involved too much in that. You know what I mean? I never understood that. Why would they want to put something over their head and go out here and cause trouble, or burn a cross in a person's house. I could never understand, that's why I never really got involved in it. I never really understood it. That's one subject I stayed clear of.
NS:	What do you remember of the N.A.A.C.P.?
PS:	Well, what I, from my stand point and my opinion, I think the N.A.A.C.P. had done some good things. But there was one involved in it called Willie Mahone, a lawyer. He always tried to come in and make a bad name for them. He always said the police didn't hire enough blacks and this one didn't do enough for blacks. They come to find out he cheated on his taxes and he didn't pay his taxes. Finally they just, they just took his licence away from him, he can't even practice to be a lawyer anymore. I don't know whether he's still involved in the N.A.A.C.P. or not, but he always tried to make a bad name for it. But basically, I think the N.A.A.C.P. was a better organization than what the Ku Klux Klan were. They were out to destroy the blacks, I mean the whites. And the N.A.A.C.P. would try to work with them. And that's my opinion. But I thought they was a little bit better of an organization than what the Ku Klux Klan, they didn't run around, put a cloth over their head, and go out and try to burn a cross in front of everybody's house. I think they basically tried to help people. But the Ku Klux Klan, I don't think they try to help anybody. They were just out for themselves. That's my opinion now, you know. But I don't know whatever happened to Willie, I haven't read anymore about where he went or if he's practicing law or what, you know?
NS:	A couple of years ago, probably three or four years ago, I know that for something for the Frederick fair there was a car thing.
PS:	Oh yeah, the demolition derby.
NS:	Yeah, and the Ku Klux Klan wanted to like paint their car.
PS:	Yeah.
NS:	But it was revoked, but the N.A.A.C.P. had one.
PS:	Yeah.
NS:	How do you feel about that?
PS:	Oh, well, back then I had a good sense, but I believe, really don't think it was really more fair for one than the other one, but like I said, before, I don't like repeating myself, but I think the double A, N.A.A.C.P. was more for the people than what the Ku Klux Klan were. They, they would go out and basically try to do things for themselves and try to cause trouble for everybody, including black and whites. But I think N.A.A.C.P. was basically a good corporation. They try to do things, but no, I don't know, I don't know whatever outcome of that was. But I don't think it one should've had, one should have had a car in and not the other one. If they were going to do it, they should've done it fairly. Try to work out a way to work it fairly, that would be even for everybody, the black, white, N.A.A.C.P., Ku Klux Klan, the white people, whatever. [It] should of not been solved the way it was solved.
NS:	How is Frederick in terms of race relations? How, how different is it from when you were younger to now?
PS:	Well, when I was younger, you would never see a black and white couple together. That was wrong. That was I guess the law, we might say. But today you'd see black and white together all the time, which I don't see any harm. It's each to their own. But, like I said, back when I was growing up, it, that would not be heard of. You would be banned. But today you see quite a bit of it. I don't think it's, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Basically, you know, I guess nobody's going to like me for saying that, but I have a daughter that's married to a black man and I'm satisfied with it, as long as he treats her good. It, it's each to their own. You know what you like, you know what you want to be. So, that's basic, but back then, back in my days when I was growing up, you wouldn't hear of it, it would not be heard of, no.
NS:	Do you think Frederick has changed in the race relations for the better or for the good, or for the worse?
PS:	Let's put it this way, it's half and half. To my opinion, it's half and half. There's bad blacks and there's bad whites. There's good blacks, and there's good whites. They might have [to] look far in between to find them, but there are basically good and bad of each color, of each race. Bad whites, bad blacks. You know, but you have to look around for it. I think that a lot of the blacks are into drugs and everything more that what whites are, but today it's getting worse. But I think that the relations are getting so-so.
NS:	What was it like to have segregation and did it seem strange to have separate things for blacks and whites. Like separate water fountains and simple things like that?
PS:	I never went through that.
NS:	No?
PS:	I never went through that. When they first brought them in to the high school, when I was going to Frederick High School, they did not have that. I never had to go through nothing like that.
NS:	You were, when they brought them in, you were going to high school when they first had blacks at Frederick?
PS:	Yeah.
NS:	What was the feeling with that? I mean were most people...
PS:	It didn't bother me. Because they didn't really have any separate things set up, separate for them. They could use the same things that we could use. They could use the same bathrooms and everything. Because I never went through this thing of, say like they had a water fountain, and I had a water fountain. I never went through that. I don't know how I would act, if I did do that. But I don't feel that way. I never would have. But, no, I never went through that stage.
NS:	How did your classmates feel about having...
PS:	Oh, I don't know how they felt, no, mostly, basically they all [were] like me, it didn't matter. They, they knew it didn't rub off or nothing. And none of us went through that. Oh, it might have been maybe a handful, but they stayed to themselves, the blacks stayed to themselves. It was, was no trouble. They didn't have no trouble at all when they brought them in. In Frederick County they didn't. Now I think in Montgomery County, I think or Carroll County or Washington, one of the counties they did, but Frederick County they didn't have no problem at all with it. They, it went through like a hitch, without a hitch. No problem at all.
NS:	And the parents didn't have a problem with it?
PS:	Far as I can remember, if my memory serves me right, I don't think they did. I might be wrong, but I don't think they did. You know they played football together and everything. No. But I never went through that stage of not being able to go to a water fountain. No, I never went through that stage. I guess it'd be kind of weird if I didn't have to do that. They rode on the same school buses and everything. And it went off without a hitch, no problem at all as far as I can remember. You know if my memory serves me right, we didn't have any problems. Maybe over at the Lincoln School, you know where the Lincoln School is, but I think they had a little bit of a problem there, but they wanted to take the whites into that.
NS:	And that was the school for the blacks.
PS:	Blacks, yeah.
NS:	Before it was integrated.
PS:	But, nothing real serious now, just, you know, a little uproar, a little, nothing real serious. But it went, like I said, it went off without a hitch. No problem at all as far as I can remember now. I might be wrong. Like I said my memory is not too...
NS:	Okay. How big was Frederick as, in terms of size, like when you were going to high school?
PS:	It was, well, it had more farm areas. They've taken all the farm areas out toward eighty [State Route 80], eighty-five [State Route 85], had a lot of farms on it. They took a lot of them, put in the shopping mall. The shopping center for FSK [Francis Scott Key] mall. They took one or two, or maybe three farms in that way. And, and Frederick Towne Mall they had, well, I can't remember what was out there. But they took everything that was out there and tore it down and made it Frederick Towne Mall. It was much smaller. And the streets in Frederick were two ways, instead of one way. It's much bigger now. It wasn't quite this big way back then. So, it, it, like rather small town. I kind of liked it that way, too big now. Yeah, it's too big now. It, they thinking about putting another mall out, I forget where it's supposed to go. Out toward Whittaker, I think. Somewhere. I forget where they said they were going to try to put up another mall somewheres. I forget where they said it was going. But Whittaker is fighting against a grocery store that's going up out there. But we didn't, we didn't have none of this, it was more countryside. But they took all [the] countryside and made it big. No, there's more country. [It was] freer than it was, back then than it is now.
NS:	Yeah.
PS:	Yeah.
NS:	Do you have any other memories or comments about Frederick? How it was?
PS:	Well, back when I was growing up, a young girl and [when] I [was a] teenager, we could go out, no matter how late we go out, we could walk the street, or we could get in a car and ride in a car. And just enjoy yourself and be free, you know what I mean? No fear, no nothing. You could, you could go out all hours of the night. You could go out and park anywhere you want to park with no danger. You could walk up and down the street at all, no danger. Now, you can't go out and hitchhike, well, it's not nice to hitchhike anyway, but I'm just using it as an example. Back when I was growing up, you hitchhike, somebody could pick you up. You wouldn't have to worry about anything. Now, if you go out and hitchhike, you have to be worried about [if] someone's going to knock you in the head. And you go out walking at night, which I like to go out and walk, you have to watch where you go and watch what you're doing, but like my son says, I have no fear anyway. But, it's, it's, changed, it's really changed. I don't know whether it's changed for the better or for the worse. But, like I said back then, when I was a teenager, it was more free, more freedom. You didn't have to worry about anything. You can go and come and do what you like with no fear. Now you can't really go out and do what you like to do. But everybody, you know, it's, it's more dangerous now. I think it's more dangerous now. It's more, there's not as much for the kids to do now. Back then we didn't have much either but it was, they had dances and things back then. You could go out and enjoy yourself. No drugs and everything. Now you go out to a dance and all you hear is drugs and this. But I think it's more dangerous now than back when I was growing up. It's not as free, no freedom, no. Kids can't be a kid, nowadays, know what I'm saying? Back then you could be a kid and enjoy it.
NS:	Do, do you have any regrets about living in Frederick County all your life or...
PS:	No, I have no regrets, I just wish, no. No, no, truthfully, no, I have no regrets. I wouldn't change anything. I guess if I could live, have a better life, I mean if I lived my life over, I would want that. But otherwise, I have no regrets. I've lost a lot in my life, but that wasn't due to my fault. No, I have no regrets. I've always liked living in Frederick County.
NS:	I've always thought it was a nice town.
PS:	Yeah, yeah. I do. It's really a nice town. I had, I have a lot of friends in Frederick city and Frederick county. A lot more friends---gentlemen friends than I do ladies, because I can talk to a man better than I can a woman. Everybody thinks, "Oh, that's so bad." But no, I have a lot of friends, a lot of friends, you know. And they've all come through when I really needed them. But I have no regrets about living in Frederick County, not at all. It's a nice town, like you said.
NS:	Okay. Thank you again for doing this interview. I appreciate it a lot.
PS:	Well, you're quite welcome. I hope I helped you some.
NS:	Yes you did. Thank you.
PS:	I hoped I could've remembered more but...
NS:	No problem.