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Interview with Elaine M. Riley

Citation

Please feel free to use the information from this transcript in any scholarly work. The full citation for this document is : Elaine M. Riley, interview by Brenda R. Haines, October 25, 1998, OH029, Oral History Collection, Frederick Community College, Frederick, MD.

Abstract

Elaine M. Riley is a Frederick County resident. She was born in 1938, raised on a farm, and then married in 1959, living in Southern Pennsylvania for most of her life. She is a mother, a grandmother, and a homemaker. Mrs. Riley speaks of her role as wife and mother, and how this was affected by the Vietnam War, John F. Kennedy's assassination, the Equal Rights Amendment, the Civil Rights Movement and women's liberation.

Transcript

BH = Brenda R. Haines (interviewer)
ER = Elaine M. Riley (interviewee)

BH:	Good Morning, today is Sunday, October 25, 1998. We're here is Walkersville, Maryland, interviewing Elaine M. Riley. The purpose of this tape today is my interest in the different roles and lifestyles that women in the 1950s and 1960s played as opposed to my role as a woman in 1998. Mrs. Riley, let's start out by having you tell me about your early years at home.
ER:	Well, I was born in 1938, lived on a farm, was raised on a farm, so I was kind of raised in the era where you did take care of the gentlemen in your life. Then I graduated from high school. I got a job that which I loved. I was a secretary at a consolidated school and I loved it. I married in 1959, never, never, even thinking about getting a job and going out into the world. I felt at that time that my role was to be a wife and if I was very lucky, I would be a mother.
BH:	Let's go back to your home life as a child. Was your mother in the home?
ER:	Yes, my mother, like I said, we were raised on a farm. My mother did the housework. She did the gardening. She did that type thing, although she did help on the farm, but here primary role was as a caretaker.
BH:	And your father?
ER:	My father was a farmer but he also was a laborer in a factory that made railroad cars, so he would be gone during the day, and my mother would handle whatever needed to be done. So I was king of raised where we did do, like I said, the gentlemens in our lives, what we needed to do to make their lives easier.
BH:	Do you remember, a lot of women during World War II actually went in to the work force for lack of the men to fill those jobs. Did your mother do anything outside the home during the war?
ER:	Yes. I was raised in Greenville, Pennsylvania, and right outside of our small town was a POW camp. It was called Camp Reynolds. Very historical in our area. And my mother went to work there. And I, I was born in 1938 so I was not very old. But, what I do remember, she had a job doing something with shoe laces. I don't know what she did with them. And I also remember, it was really strange that my father would cook. We got so tired of macaroni, because that seemed to be his very favorite thing, or the easiest thing to make. Yes, she did work outside of the home only during service time.
BH:	So, when the war was over and the men came back from overseas, your mother was back in her role in the home?
ER:	Right, now my father was home during that time because he was a farmer. I don't know about his status. He would have been [in his] early 30's. I assume the farming. But he had a job also, but she did do this work in the POW camp.
BH:	Your parents' roles in the home, do you think they influenced you later on in life?
ER:	I'm sure that my mother did because it seemed to be, knowing how hard my father worked, he would work eight hours in the shop, come home, it was nothing to spend another eight or nine hours doing the farm work. And, I would see her, day after day, doing things that made his life easier. That when he came in, his meals were ready, he never had to worry about dirty socks, they were always clean and in his drawer. Yes, it did affect me.
BH:	Your financial status, would you consider yourself at the time, lower middle class? Did your have enough money to pay the bills?
ER:	I'm not sure how my parents would have answered this question. I do not ever remember being poor in that sense. We were raised on this farm, we had the food, we had the milk, the meat, the vegetables that my mother raised. And then I was very fortunate because our neighbor lady cleaned house for a family that had a girl, and she brought all the hand me downs home, and I thought I was queen of the hill. So, I don't remember being poor. We probably were.
BH:	You were married in 1959?
ER:	Yes Ma'am.
BH:	Was that something you always knew that you would do when you were maybe dreaming as a teenager, did you always feel that your eventual role would be that of a wife and mother like you said before?
ER:	Yes. I always wanted to be a wife and I wanted to have children, but the strange thing is, and it probably sounds really strange to the ladies of the 90's, when I first met the guy that I married, I knew that he was the one I would marry. Now, he had a job that required that he stay single for two years. So we got engaged very early, very quickly, like within three months. But we did wait another two and a half years before we got married. But I knew that I wanted him as my husband and if I was lucky enough to have children, I wanted him to be the father of my children.
BH:	Were you young at that point?
ER:	I met him just shortly after I turned 18 and then we were married just around my 21st birthday.
BH:	Describe a typical day in your early married life.
ER:	Well, I don't know how much background you want, but a typical day in my life was not a typical day in another lady's life. My husband was a Pennsylvania state policeman, which required an awful lot of hours. At that time they would work 24-hour shifts. Now they would not be on the road 24 hours. They would sleep at the barracks eight of those hours. They were required to be there one hour ahead of time, stay one hour after the closing of their shift, make sure all the paper work and things were done. And when we got married, we moved to Fayette County which is in southwestern Pennsylvania. I did not know a soul. We had a 10x50 foot trailer that I thought was just the Taj Mahal. But you're trying to fill all these hours, so the joy in my life was to keep this little dinky trailer clean. Have it sparkling with flowers on the table when he got home, and as I would see him come down the driveway, that is what I looked forward to.
BH:	Did you have transportation to get out of the trailer while your husband was at work all these hours?
ER:	Oh, that was unheard of, no. First of all I'm not sure we could have afforded it, but it wasn't high on my list that I have a vehicle, so I would be in this trailer for all these hours and my husband would get home, we would do rides and things to break up, and he was very good about that. But, no, we did not have a car. I'm not sure we could have afforded it and I never even considered a job outside the home.
BH:	If there was an emergency situation, did you have a way to get hold of your husband or did somebody that did have a car in the neighborhood?
ER:	We were very fortunate in that aspect. Because as we moved into this trailer it was right around the time that trailers were being considered decent housing and there were a lot of terrific people living in these trailers because it was affordable and also I was lucky in the sense that if I would call the barracks if I had an emergency, which I think I did once in my whole life, that somebody, if it wasn't my husband's area, somebody would stop and say, "What do you need? What can we get you?" Or my husband would come if it was a. . . , I know one time we had to take one of the children to the doctor and he would drop me off and when I was done I would call again and somebody would pick me up and take me home. But, you didn't do that unless it was an emergency.
BH:	Did you have a TV in the home, did that play a role, at all, in your life?
ER:	We had a TV, but there again, I'm not sure it was unusual. We bought this little TV, black and white of course. But I'm not a TV watcher. I didn't really watch a lot of TV. But at one time it broke and we could not afford to get it fixed. It was going to cost, and I remember this very clearly, $30. But we didn't have the $30, so you just winged it. Uh, we did buy a stereo, a Korean bonus came through from the government and my husband had been in the service. So instead of doing anything far reaching with our money, we bought a stereo. And, we just thought that was terrific. So yes, I did listen to that. I had other distractions. I took walks. I loved to read. I could fill my time with no problem.
BH:	Most advertising in that time period was geared toward women. They called it "the sell" to try to get women to buy certain products to make their floors shine and sparkle. Were you a part of that? Did you buy into that at all?
ER:	Well, I think because I was young, I kind of used the products. I would… My husband would watch TV when it was working. And, you know, I would see these advertisements, with the lady all sparkly, standing beside her refrigerator and it was this brand. But no, when we shopped it was either what I had used when I was growing up because we were expected to help at home, or what was cheaper.
BH:	How did your husbands' job affect you on a daily basis?
ER:	Well, one of the things that is so different now, as compared to then, was that seemed to be the focus of our lives. Not because of him so much but because of the weird hours they were expected to work. The concern for his safety. They would call and say you're on standby for whatever. And we kind of worked around his job and yes, it did affect me because if he was supposed to be home at four o'clock, you'd think that dinner needed to be ready. And maybe you'd get a call at five thirty that would say, well, he's not coming home till whenever. But at the time it wasn't any big deal. Like if supper got too brown, you'd have toast. It was not a big concern other that for his safety which was my primary concern. Even now, it still is. But, it was more to make, my job was to make his life as easy as I possibly could. I would no more have expected him to do the dishes. As we get into the parenting, he was wonderful. But then, before the children came, I tried to keep it so that he could come in, he could have a nice dinner, relax and read the newspaper, and anyone who knows my husband, knows he is a TV fanatic and he could flip through that, when it was working, all three or four channels that we got. But yes, his job affected my life and I did not resent it.
BH:	Did most women that you were acquainted with at the time lead lives similar to yours?
ER:	Well, the strange thing is we were the norm and I did have friends who had jobs and they were not the normal in quotes at that time because I had one girlfriend that was a schoolteacher and I just thought how does she get all her work done. How does she keep her windows sparkly and her floors swept because she is gone all day. She managed fine. But it was more normal to be home. It wasn't like you said I am just a housewife. I have always hated that phrase. I was more than just a housewife. But it was the ladies that worked away, they were the ones that was different. I wasn't different.
BH:	At what point in your marriage did you have children?
ER:	Well as different as it may seem to this generation, we were married 13 months when our oldest daughter was born. Three years later we had a second daughter. Then that was it. But you have to realize that we were still living in a 10x50 foot trailer and we were also kept moving. The children helped me fill my days. And we did things with them. The girls and I would go for walks. At one point we lived in Erie, Pennsylvania and of course, there were a lot of things right around where we lived that we could also fill the days in. But they came very early in our marriage, yes.
BH:	Were you aware of birth control methods that were fairly new? Birth control pills?
ER:	Yes, and if you want the truth, I was afraid of the birth control pills. Because of the fact they were very new. They were telling you we don't know the side effects, we don't know what these will do. And I wanted both children and to be very truthful before our first daughter was born we never used anything. So we are probably lucky she didn't come nine months later. But it did take thirteen. Then we used another form of birth control until we were ready to have our second daughter. But I think the biggest thing on, I never took birth control pills in my life because I was afraid of them very early on.
BH:	The 1960's were a very turbulent time both at home and abroad. Do you have any recollections of those times?
ER:	Yes. So to preface it, I will say that our first daughter was born in 1960. Our second one in 1963. So I was aware that maybe I didn't get out as much, but I loved to read, the television was fixed by this point. And we really lived this through the television. And I see clips now that are so unusual that I think we were eating dinner when we were watching the body bags and all the fighting and I never could quite understand why we didn't support the guys. I had cousins that was in Vietnam. And I would try as much as I could to send them things. It affected me in the sense that I felt that we were not supporting. Right or wrong, the guys were there. And we were watching this on the nightly news. And yes, and then we got into the assassination. I remember as if it were yesterday the day that John Kennedy was assassinated. And I just couldn't believe that we were seeing this. And, then we saw Lee Harvey Oswald, uh, being gunned down. And it was just an incredible time. Now they would say that, oh, you have to censor this for the children. But this was on the news. We watched this. The day that Kennedy was assassinated, I remember distinctly that my husband was working afternoons and we had done something in the morning and we had not had the radio on, or the television on. And he had just left for work and the phone rang and here he had heard it on the way in. And I remember just crying and crying that we could do this. I have a very soft heart and I couldn't believe that we could gun down the President of The United States.
BH:	How did this affect your life, if at all?
ER:	Well, you know, you got up in the morning and you got through the day. I think more than anything it affected what you thought about. And back to the Kennedy assassination, you watched this and then you buried him and you saw those children. It made me very sad but also it wasn't anything that you didn't go out and go to the funeral or stand in line and wave a flag. I felt very patriotic and very sad but didn't really change how I lived at home or what I did at home. Other than the fact that it hurt my heart.
BH:	And Mrs. Kennedy?
ER:	I felt that she was so dignified and got through that terrible time. And these two little children standing by her side. And I just, I admired her for the way she handled and also lead the country in that terrible time.
BH:	The Civil Rights Movement of course, was big at this time too.
ER:	Yes, and because we were from the north it wasn't like it affected our everyday life and I do know, and I still feel that way. You would see these terrible, terrible things going on and I didn't understand why we had to do this. What does the color of our skin, what does that make any difference? We're all human beings. We should love each other. I just never felt how you could stand in a school way, a school door, and say to these little children you can't come in. Why can't they come in? They belong there. And I hope that I see my grandchildren's generation that skin and background, and my dress is prettier than your dress, if this could all be eliminated we would be so much better off.
BH:	Your husband's job as a law enforcement officer, was he affected by this disequilibrium? Were you also?
ER:	Yes, he of course, was. By this time we were living in Erie, Pennsylvania, which had a larger black population than where we were before. And they of course, were wanting a lot more of the freedoms or whether they had them or not, I do not know. But yes, we did have, probably what you would call mini riots in Erie, Pennsylvania. But there was a lot of nights that they would get called and you didn't know when they'd be home. You'd watch the news. He very fortunately was never hurt. But it made my life, a little more on edge because when he would go to a regular days job, I never expected that he would not come home. I never was afraid of his job. But at that time, and then you would see this on the news the next day. So you'd think, "Oh my, he was there. He did, was he safe?" It affected my mental state more than anything else. I did, I was more concerned about him, yes. And also the fact, by this time, with the children and not working outside the home, if something would have happened, how could I have supported these children?
BH:	The woman's role in the home was now starting to be questioned. Uh, there was an author by the name of Betty Friedan who wrote a book called the Feminine Mystique in 1963. She classified housewives as living in a comfortable concentration camp. Do you have any feelings on this?
ER:	Not having read her particular book, I do want to say that I never, never felt, I was very fortunate in my choice of husbands because he never made me feel this is my money. I earned it. Whatever we had we had together. He was very generous, very gracious, as a matter of fact, he wouldn't have known what he made in a paycheck anyhow. He brought it home and here it was and I could do with it as I see fit. It came to the point though, at this time it started out that I was just a housewife. And to this day when we do our income tax, I never put housewife. I put that I am a homemaker. And I feel great pride in my job. I feel I have, if we talked about the children, we have the two girls. And I feel great pride in what I have done. They are very gracious, they are women of the 90's though. But they are, were great children. They were great teenagers. And I just feel that I really done a . . . My job I've done well. I raised two upstanding citizens. Who in turn have married very good. They have given me wonderful grandchildren. I have never felt that I was put down. That I was "just" a housewife and lived in a concentration camp. Because I did not do that. By the time that we were able to afford a second car, I have to tell you my daughters were in like eighth and maybe fifth grade being three years apart. And my husband had gotten transferred and we weren't going to move because it was the middle of the school year. But then we thought, well, I can't be without a car. So now they're grown up a little bit and I finally have a second car. But I didn't think of that as my freedom. It wasn't, we did things, I did things with the girls when he was transferred. And I just never felt that I lived in this concentration camp that she talked about.
BH:	So you were comfortable with your role?
ER:	Absolutely. And I look at it that I have done a great job in my job.
BH:	What about the women acquaintances that you had at the time?
ER:	Well, it started, it was different, it's starting to be different now. As we moved and I would make new friends. Because the Pennsylvania State Police at that time did a lot of transferring. And we had the mobile home so it was easier for us to move. So we made a lot more moves than a lot of the other ones. But now I am finding that my new friends, they all have jobs. And I am starting to be the one on the outside of this, my job circle. But I would watch them try to juggle jobs, children. And I never saw that their money that they brought into this house made a whole lot of difference because they spent it on day-care. They spent it on fast foods. Which at that time, McDonald's was a treat. They ate like that all the time. And I still to this day, and we have some of these that are still very good friends of ours, that I don't think they have anymore than we do. I'm not sure that their money, the money aspect of that, now they had, maybe it helped and fulfilled their lifestyle to have these jobs. But I don't think financially they did any better than we did.
BH:	So you never wished in your life, for something other than what you had?
ER:	Never, not one day in my life. And I laugh when I tell my daughters this that there wasn't a minute from the point of conception on that I didn't want to be their mothers. And no, I never wanted anything different. And then as the kids got bigger and got married and went about their lives, I never even thought about getting a part time job. It just, my job then reverted back to taking and making my husband's home and life easier. One other thing about when I was just the housewife bit. As our girls got older and got into the field trips, they got into mothers helping out at school. I did get angry. I sometimes would get angry cause I would get a phone call saying "since you don't work." Well, I'm thinking, "If I'm not working, exactly what is it I'm doing, and what do you want." But it turned out to be three dozen cookies or "Can you go on our field trip?" "Can you come and help out at our party today?" And I was more than willing to do that but I'm thinking of how much these other mothers are missing. Because maybe they sent a dozen cookies, but they were store bought cookies. And I can remember one field trip where my youngest daughter came home, and well actually, they were going to Washington, D.C. and like about two days before they were leaving she wanted to know if I could make enough cookies for the bus. And I'm thinking a bus load of cookies, how am I going to make all these cookies for a bus load of kids? And I said, "Well, we'll wing it." And I ended up, I actually bought cookie mix and made cookies. But I was the stay at home mom so I had the time. And the teachers would even laugh. Particularly my younger daughter is more vocal than my oldest one. And it would be, "Well whose mother can . . . ?" And the teachers would tell me "Oh I never have to finish it, Donna's hand is up and it's her mom who will do it." And it turned out that I loved it, I really did. And there again, I sometimes felt kind of sorry for the other working mothers. Because they didn't have time to do this and they missed so much. We would go on field trips, we would do funny things. And they did, they missed a lot. I didn't miss it. I was there.
BH:	Did you feel at any time any animosity toward women who worked outside the home?
ER:	No, not really. Because I think, I'm also, even though I have a soft heart, I'm very broad-minded. And I think that you have to do what you have to do. Now I raised two daughters and they are very much of the 90's. And they both work half to three quarter time. And I think they work, both of them I think they work, for themselves. They do not work, I would think they don't have to work for the financial edge of it. But they need that. They need to be able to get out. And that is wonderful. If that's what they need then that's what they should do. Maybe we all need to be a little more gracious in letting each other decide what they need. I didn't need anything but what I had. And as our children got older it never, even then, entered my mind that I should be doing something to earn my keep. I never felt that way. But I also think the ones that did, they should do that.
BH:	"Women's liberation." Does that mean anything to you?
ER:	I'm not exactly sure what women want to be liberated from. And I think now it is going back to a lot of women of the 90's are thinking I want to be, I want to be this mother that stays home and I want to be this wife that's home. But I'm not sure, if you marry somebody you love and you have children and you enjoy what you're doing and you love your lifestyle. I'm not sure what they want liberated from. What do they want? Do they just want a bigger car? Or a bigger house? What do they want? And I never felt I needed to be liberated. If they feel that way, maybe they should search their hearts and find out what they need in their life. What they need, what they're comfortable with.
BH:	Do you think there are cases where it has been taken too far?
ER:	Yes, I think we put men down. If, it got to the point where men where the bad guys. These women had to be out there doing there, whatever, and men where the bad guys. Why do we have the bad guys and the good women and the women that were very much liberated, they still wanted a husband but I think the women tried to put the men in this little category where you're just my bed partner or whatever they needed this man for. They didn't want to be equal, they wanted to be better. And I think in that sense, I disagreed with the liberation movement because neither is better. You need to figure out and compromise and do what you both need to do to make a happy life.
BH:	Did you favor the Equal Rights Amendment?
ER:	Yes, I did favor the Equal Rights Amendment. Because I felt that if women were doing the job then they should be paid an equal amount of money. Why were they in that sense, a second-class citizen? Yes, I did favor that amendment. I think that if you were doing the work you should have been paid for it. If there is one more consideration, I have a hard time that we do want to change the constitution cause I'm very strong on that it was a terrific document. I favored it, definitely as far as the work and the women, but I do think we really have to think long and hard before we change the constitution.
BH:	What are your feelings on the lives of women today?
ER:	Well, watching it through my daughters' lives, I have one daughter that's working, has a family, a husband that travels a lot. She goes to school. I don't know how she does it all. I really do not. Because the children, it used to be when the women that I knew started to work the back fence gossip was, "Oh what their children." They'll be missing so much. I do not feel that my oldest daughter's children are missing anything because their mother works. She's happy working. She's happy going out. She's happy going to school. If she can handle that all, then I say more power to her. My youngest daughter also does the same thing. She's not going to school but she does work. She has a family. And you have so much work that you have to do anyway. They handle it very well and if that's what they choose to do then I say more power to them. I do not see it hurting the grandchildren. They, everybody seems to be happy and mom goes off to work and the children go to daycare, or in my oldest daughters case, one of them is in school. But it doesn't seem to… As long as these children are being raised well adjusted, then I say let the parents do what makes them happy.
BH:	What of your life today?
ER:	My life today, I would not really change a thing. My husband has retired, he does work part time as a courier. I have my freedom, we have a car, our television works. We have a terrific life. We really, really do. Like I said earlier in the interview, we're very happy with our children. We feel the one that lives away from home, we feel very comfortable in calling her up and saying we're coming down for two days, whatever. She is very gracious about that. I'm very happy with my lifestyle. I still get up, much to my daughters chagrin, and get their father a cup of coffee. It's like, "Are his legs broken?" But I'm to do that. But I have to also say that if he is going to the kitchen he will bring me what I need too. I am just in the role, the mode of, yes I still do take care of him. And yes, I still do wait on him sometimes maybe more than I should. And my daughters think I do it more than I should. But we're very, very fortunate we have a wonderful family, our health is good, we can do basically the things we want to do. And I feel very fortunate, I would not change one thing. Looking back, my daughters tell me I must have forgotten the days they were bad. Now, they had their moments. But I would not change one thing. I have been just extremely fortunate and for that I'm very grateful.
BH:	If you had one wish for your granddaughters, what would it be?
ER:	For my granddaughters it's very hard, and I get very emotional thinking about what they will do with their lifestyle. But, in the end, when they are, I am 60, when they are 60, I hope that they can look back and say I did what I wanted to do. I had a wonderful life and this is the lifestyle I've chosen and I was very happy with it. I know that they will be educated, they will be great, great young ladies. But in their hearts, I hope that they are able to do what they want to do that makes them happy.
BH:	Any closing remarks?
ER:	I think I probably pretty well covered it. I am very, very happy. I would not have changed it. My friends that had jobs, their children turned out, for the most part, most of the children turned out to be great, great kids and went on and so forth. So their mothers working did not really hurt these children at all. But for my life, I am just extremely grateful and happy with the way it turned out.
BH:	We thank you very much for your interview today.
ER:	Thank you.